Thread: New stone Ozuku Asagi.

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    New stone Ozuku Asagi.
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    Good day gentlemen. After over a year since my failed coticule experiment, members might remember I ended up with four expensive coticules that were useless for me. I sold them and went back to my synthetics. Well after long and careful deliberations I have entered the field of natural stones again. This time I was careful. I checked out the various vendors, their reputations, their products and their prices. I ended up buying an Ozuku Asagi from Takeshi at Aframestokyo. I can't show a picture as I'm using a brand new tablet that I can't get working, however this stone is full sized, weighs 1664 grams and is very hard and fine. I asked Takeshi for a stone that would be an excellent final finishing stone and so far I'm happy. I am of course a learner in the use of jnats, but experienced enough in honing to adapt to the best ways of using such a stone. I haven't mentioned cost, because it's immaterial to me. I wanted a premium finishing Ozuku, and that is what I have. I haven't honed a lot of razors, but enough to recognise the best uses of this type of stone.
    That being said, I have since invested in another Japanese natural stone, a very hard and fine Wakasa, also from Aframestokyo and is also for finishing my extra hollow Theirs Island razors. This Wakasa is a neighbouring mine to the famed Kyoto region, famous for ozuku an Nakayama and from all reports from Takeshi is super fine and will make an excellent final finisher.
    I thought I'd mention this new direction to my honing and I welcome any comments or advice about how to go about using these hones to their best ability. I don't have any natural nagura stones, that may follow, but I am using a mellow Atoma 1200 to create slurry, and that is working fine. I am not looking to compare it to stones like the Suehiro 20k, but as a stone to follow on from a naniwa 10k, so I am not subscribing to the views of using one stone after bevel set. I wanted stones to finish with. I hope I've gone down the right path this time, but with open eyes and mind to the realities of natural stones.
    Bob.
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    #2
    Senior Member paulblo's Avatar
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    Glad you are happy with them so far!
    I use mine only as finishers as well - water only (especially if you are starting at 10k Naniwa). If you need some edge repair then some slurry first will take care of it.
    I was about to send you a PM before you posted this with regards to trying a Jnat. I seen a stone you might like that is quite reasonable. There is no need to spend 3-500.00 to find a good stone.

    Great shaves should follow


    Paul
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    #3
    Administrator hibudgl's Avatar
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    I think you are in right path. i would say both Jnats will make you happy.
    About your second stone. i do have couple of those but i am not sure about spelling .
    if those stones same then you will need only 1k stone set bevel then go to your Next japanese stone finally finish with Ozuku Asagi. Your wasaku should do the job.
    about nagura i wouldn't worry about it you don't need.
    After trying 4 coticules you have experienced what is the differences between Coticules and Jnats.
    Enjoy.
    Sham
    I know only one thing .
    That is I don't know anything.

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    #4
    Moderator MODINE's Avatar
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    It sounds like you are progressing nicely sir, congratulations. The Atoma is the correct path when raising a slurry to determine the base stones performance. Throwing a bunch of un proven stones in the mix is never a good plan.

    Later once you are confident in the base stones capabilities then experiment with some different naguras if you wish. At some point why not try and improve the a 20K edge, you may be surprised.. have fun..
    Mike
    "Focus on where the razors spine is during the shave." This will allow you to make pitch adjustments to the blade angle reducing the chance of cuts.
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    Thanks gentlemen, I really do respect those opinions, all the advice will be carefully implemented. I must say that the first time I used the Ozuku, I went to it from a naniwa 10k, it was a 6/8 Bismarck, and I honed for s short time, say a dozen strokes then looked at what had happened under a loupe. It really didn't take long to see the kasumi finish, and I was amazed at the feedback from that stone. I think I can best describe it as being the difference between a latigo heavy draw strop, to a Kanayama #70000. I think you get it. Once again thanks. Bob

    ps, the shave was ok too....
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    Just a short update. I have just had a shave with a Dovo La Forme 6/8 thumb notch near new razor. A lovely smooth, close shave, reminded me little of a chromium oxide stopped 10k naniwa edge. Difference was with this razor I ran the edge very lightly on the corner of a balsa block. I didn't want to bread knife a perfectly acceptable bevel, so I used a 10k Naniwa superstores bring it back to a genuine 10k edge. I then spent a little time putting it onto the new Ozuku. What I did may be a little over kill, but I was testing the stone and I wanted see how it affected the stria of the naniwa edge. So I created a fair bit of slurry with a diamond plate, and did light pressure circles, about a dozen laps, then checked it under the loupe. I noticed the reduction of the 10k pattern, being replaced by the hazy appearance left by a Japanese natural hone. I diluted gradually another dozen or so laps using the x stroke type action(the stone us 78mm wide so true x's aren't required, finally I cleaned off the blade and with weight of the blade pressure did another 20 or so laps. Stopped it on the Kanayama and the shave was sweet.
    The true kasumi pattern was the only thing on left on the blade, all the 10k stria were gone.
    Is this the right thing to be doing? As I said I was purely wetting my feet, in testing this technique on this natural stone. In coming days I intend taking a Theirs Issard Spartacus, 7/8 which is near to brand new, it's only had a dozen 12k laps then strop to get it shaving. It's not sharp in the sense that it's not gone to the Gok 20k edge. I will just use the Ozuku with plain water, checking the stria as I go. I just want to see the effect on the steel, free of slurry. If anyone has some advice on my work thus far I'd be interested to hear some views. I was really pleased with today's shave. I can directly compare that technique to a coticule, and with the coticule I got no where near the quality of the Ozuku edge.
    Bob
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    #7
    Senior Member paulblo's Avatar
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    Bob I would not recommend using the balsa to breadknife. It is unnecessary.
    Knife sharpeners do this to remove the slight burr or fin. At 10k Naniwa you should not have a burr and if you do, breaking it off will cause microchips and a "few" more strokes on 10k will not fix it.
    I palm strop between stones sometimes partially to clean and partially for viewing under the scope. This should be sufficient.
    Keep working your way up prior to the ozuku to see if it keeps improving upon each stone. After around 12k synthetic a slurried stone will be coarser so water only probably.
    Keep us posted.



    Paul
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    Administrator hibudgl's Avatar
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    You do have some issues with your honing.
    1. Please when you check the edge don't pay attention to the bevel?
    Bevel set on 1k that is all?
    Scratches etc is nonsense don't waste your time.
    Instead pay attention to your edge.
    2. Please there is necessary to make slurry on Japanese stone then dilute it?
    That was myth made some Coticule users because coticule wasn't fine enough.
    Just trying to blame owner's that they don't know how to use coticules.
    You just make slurry and hone it
    3. if you do have 20 GoK then try to hone and finish the edges on Gok and Japanese stone.
    compare them
    Again compare edges not the bevel.
    Most Japanese stones will leave hazy bevel.
    see how edges look like and shave test.
    Enjoy.
    hope helps.
    Sham
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    That is I don't know anything.

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    #9
    Senior Member paulblo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibudgl View Post
    Bevel set on 1k that is all?
    Sham where did you get this?

    I know the edge is what matters but l also find it interesting to examine the striations (deepness of some scratches, how they are affecting the edge ETC.)
    It does not determine the qualities of the edge it will produce but it is interesting to see them and to show the stones characteristics
    I also don't think slurry is necessary after a certain point.


    Paul
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    #10
    Administrator hibudgl's Avatar
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    Paul
    You set bevel using 1k stone ?
    what is not clear in here?
    Now scratches is not matter?
    i will explain this a little more.
    You have been thought as finer you go (grit level) scratches will disappear and check that under scope as you are moving forward.
    This is some kind a misinformation.
    Example.
    Scratches in some case will stay all the way . even finished edge you will see on the bevel deep scratches.
    This happens when honer used more pressure then he needs on low grit stones.
    Dosen't matter what you do becasue of deep scratches you will not able to take them all out.
    Even you have done honing and already have shave ready blade on your hand.
    Of course you could stay on the blade hone (unnecessary) it until all scratches is gone?
    But you will end up moving more steel then you need to.
    That is why i mention don't pay attention to scratches on the bevel.
    hope this clears up.
    if you have more questions please ask.
    Sham
    I know only one thing .
    That is I don't know anything.

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